It doesn't really matter what our place is at this point. We're already here and effecting this world. The tensions are already here too. I've spent so much of my life helping people help themselves. I haven't always been right, but I don't think true neutrality exists.
๏ผ how long would it take the human mind to cease caring about such things? even the very oldest he has known had a rough idea — even if age had eaten into their minds and forestalled an exact number, they would have an estimation.
he has lived decades in tsukuyomi, belying his youth. but he still knows exactly how many years he has passed in that realm. ๏ผ
Do either Sedorum or Taeum resemble beliefs held in your world that you have encountered?
๏ผ local man onboard with reincarnation, but even taeum does not resemble jลdo at all. ๏ผ
[ for andy, it's not a lack of care so much as the sheer span of her life has simply erased the knowledge. calendars change, her very earliest years harbor no written records. the exact number is hard to pinpoint, even if she has a general sense from history itself in the present day. ]
Yeah. People call it heaven and hell. And I'm older than them both, so it's been hard to buy into it here. Reincarnation exists too.
Wealthy individuals in my world make generous donations to temples for what I imagine amounts to the same purpose in the end — perhaps they hope it will be taken as an act of contrition to purify the soul.
Though, I do not believe everyone in Taeum is corrupt. However, given that nothing is considered a 'sin' any longer, I have seen... significant devolution in the cultural mores here.
That behavior has existed almost as long as I've been alive. Temples, religions, individuals, they accrue wealth under the guise of faith and the meaning behind the beliefs blurs and fades. Gets twisted.
They take advantage of the poor and gullible. I'm sure there are innocent people in Taeum. How do they feel about the shifting definition of sin?
Some are empathetic. They feel poorly, but not so poorly as to risk their lifestyles here to change it. Others truly believe that they are where they belong and nothing can be done for those in Sedorum, as it is a thing deserved.
I agree. I do not hold the belief that anyone deserves to suffer, or struggle. Life is pain enough — we need not add to it unnecessarily.
๏ผ there are people he would kill, given half a chance. but all save one would be clean. death serves its own purpose in the end, and self-improvement cannot come from pain. what it builds is brittle, inflexible and cold. torturing these poor, lost souls serves nothing in the end. it is only cruel. ๏ผ
Yet, even if the realms are merged, divisions will still exist. People will still see them as lesser, hierarchies will be established and classes built up from the ashes. Being in Taeum will not erase the stigma of having come from Sedorum.
But I suppose that is for them to figure out. We will not see the outcome in full. It can only be left to faith.
[ her first thought is itachi has thought about this a lot. she gets the impression he did not have an easy life, mulls over what she witnessed in the dreamworld while considering how the dreams can distort reality, flickers through what she remembers of his skills. he's seen war and andy knows what that looks like and does to a person. some people don't come out of it with views like he espouses. ]
That's why I think giving them the tools to take care of themselves even after we're gone is the best way forward. I don't think it's left to faith. It'll be up to them and breaking through the confines of their beliefs.
This isn't a problem that's going to magically get fixed, especially because I don't think we have the whole picture. There's always more when it come to the orbs.
Forgive me, I was unclear. That was not the faith I meant to imply. I was speaking on the matter of their self-governance and determination.
๏ผ such faith does not come easily to him. it is an act of will, nascent, born of a dream he thought long dead. he is not practiced at articulating it.
changing tacks — ๏ผ
I am considering the likelihood that removing the orbs will result in the eradication of the souls of both realms.
๏ผ not something he's mentioned to anyone else. as theories go, he has little else to support it save an awareness of what may constitute a worst-case contingency. but they cannot discount it. the orbs are capricious, and they cleave to chaos. what better an outcome for them than something that removes many thousands of souls from a world's reincarnation cycle?
yet, the orbs cannot be left alone. even if they return to the ximilia empty-handed, they would eventually by needs return. ๏ผ
Edited (im too tired sense was not made send help) 2022-04-06 04:42 (UTC)
If an orb or orbs have created this place as part of a bargain — regardless of with whom — we run the risk of destabilizing the realms to remove them. Given their nature, I do not think they would care to leave the souls unscathed if that is the case.
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Do you feel it's our place to give them one?
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It doesn't really matter what our place is at this point. We're already here and effecting this world. The tensions are already here too. I've spent so much of my life helping people help themselves. I haven't always been right, but I don't think true neutrality exists.
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How old are you?
๏ผ old, he knows. but he has no frame of reference for what that means — cases like madara are rare, after all. ๏ผ
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I don't have a number for you.
[ and if he doesn't have a frame of reference for earth time and historical events, she can't even offer that. ]
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he has lived decades in tsukuyomi, belying his youth. but he still knows exactly how many years he has passed in that realm. ๏ผ
Do either Sedorum or Taeum resemble beliefs held in your world that you have encountered?
๏ผ local man onboard with reincarnation, but even taeum does not resemble jลdo at all. ๏ผ
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Yeah. People call it heaven and hell. And I'm older than them both, so it's been hard to buy into it here. Reincarnation exists too.
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Many religions are about control. It would not surprise me to learn the same is true of this place.
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People being able to buy themselves in speaks to corruption somewhere along the line.
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Wealthy individuals in my world make generous donations to temples for what I imagine amounts to the same purpose in the end — perhaps they hope it will be taken as an act of contrition to purify the soul.
Though, I do not believe everyone in Taeum is corrupt. However, given that nothing is considered a 'sin' any longer, I have seen... significant devolution in the cultural mores here.
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They take advantage of the poor and gullible. I'm sure there are innocent people in Taeum. How do they feel about the shifting definition of sin?
The people in Sedorum are suffering needlessly.
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I don't really think anyone down here deserves to be here.
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๏ผ there are people he would kill, given half a chance. but all save one would be clean. death serves its own purpose in the end, and self-improvement cannot come from pain. what it builds is brittle, inflexible and cold. torturing these poor, lost souls serves nothing in the end. it is only cruel. ๏ผ
Yet, even if the realms are merged, divisions will still exist. People will still see them as lesser, hierarchies will be established and classes built up from the ashes. Being in Taeum will not erase the stigma of having come from Sedorum.
But I suppose that is for them to figure out. We will not see the outcome in full. It can only be left to faith.
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That's why I think giving them the tools to take care of themselves even after we're gone is the best way forward. I don't think it's left to faith. It'll be up to them and breaking through the confines of their beliefs.
This isn't a problem that's going to magically get fixed, especially because I don't think we have the whole picture. There's always more when it come to the orbs.
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๏ผ such faith does not come easily to him. it is an act of will, nascent, born of a dream he thought long dead. he is not practiced at articulating it.
changing tacks — ๏ผ
I am considering the likelihood that removing the orbs will result in the eradication of the souls of both realms.
๏ผ not something he's mentioned to anyone else. as theories go, he has little else to support it save an awareness of what may constitute a worst-case contingency. but they cannot discount it. the orbs are capricious, and they cleave to chaos. what better an outcome for them than something that removes many thousands of souls from a world's reincarnation cycle?
yet, the orbs cannot be left alone. even if they return to the ximilia empty-handed, they would eventually by needs return. ๏ผ
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[ unfortunately. ]
What makes you think that? Have you found anything to suggest it, or are you just running through all the worst possible outcomes?
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If an orb or orbs have created this place as part of a bargain — regardless of with whom — we run the risk of destabilizing the realms to remove them. Given their nature, I do not think they would care to leave the souls unscathed if that is the case.
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But it would still leave these people in jeopardy, you're right. Something else to look into, to be on the safe side.
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I have business to which I must attend. Be well, Andy-san.
๏ผ and off he goes. ๏ผ
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